Hi!

Just a short note to let you know that WebAPP would be going through some radical changes both in terms of script, organization and  much more within the next two to three months, that is before or within the expected date for the release of a stable WebAPP V.2.0.

Until then, please see this thread as an open invitation for suggestions of how we can make WebAPP a better script and a better organization.

On

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[user:On]
on@web-app.net

WebAPP CMS - Ethos and Logos but no thanks to Pathos!
GC/CS/E/H/IT/L/M/MU/PA/P/S/SS/TW/O d(+++)>+ s: a+>++>+++$ C++++$ UBAHS*++++$ P+++++(--)$ L !E? W+>++ N+++@ K+++>++++++@ w$ !O M->+ V--() PS+(-) PE(++) Y+ PGP->+ t+() 5 X? R>* tv@ b++>+++ DI+++ D? G(-) e++>+++@ h----() r+++ y++++ (Words of wisdom from Larry Wall, 1993)

Change is good. I have not didn't anything with Perl code for a long time now. It seems like forever. I miss it. I still think that no matter what happens WebAPP is still the best flat file perl CMS in the world. The history is like a novel.

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0 but true

Sounds good, On.  Can't wait to see the changes.

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Got a WebAPP site?  Show it off!

Well this is a good decision, however, the core must come together, and must have a meeting, at least once a month, by taking minutes in written form, by making a plan  for 3 stages: short term, middle and long term, taking all discussions and errors of the first version into account, and be keen to change them, without sticking to old none-convenient ideas...!
Well done, go ahead and go for it...:-)
On On
G*

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ankaraHHH.com
On On
G*

Hi On,
I got one suggestion for the script that just came up. I clicked on the "Notification" button at the bottom of the page to receive a notice of new posts to this thread, but then realized I would like to be notified of new posts AND  topics in a couple of particular forums.

Could you add a feature which would allow this.. notifying users of new topics in a specific forum and new posts in all topics under a specific forum? It might burn up too much e-mail server resources on a busy site... I dunno, but it would be a nice feature for a low volume site. Maybe the admin could choose to allow it or not.

-Chris

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My geriatric signature.

Simple...

1) End all hostilities with Jos. Any effort to plot her demise is a waste of energy. Use this energy to develop WebAPP. Protect anything new with your own license (Creative Commons are more than suitable) if you wish, but draw a line under it. Negativity breeds negativity.

2) If you are going to make some radical changes to the script, may I suggest you postpone v2, or release v2 as an update to v1 instead.

3) Use a version control system of any type! On more than one occasion I have gone to develop something only to discover that someone (On) is already working on it. Usually after I have a beta version to test! More wasted time and disheartening too!

4) Set up a development site or sub-domain (this should remain as a support site ONLY!). Jointly work upon about 6-10 custom core modules. I am about half way through developing a flat file database module, this could be ported to become an optional MySQL, Oracle, etc. module. Then, rebuild all the "applications" that use the core code.

5) More ideas to follow!

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"Open Source, Open Minds
If you make something idiot proof, somebody will come up with a better idiot.

I see the number 1 point as a complete waste of time.

When it comes to the sacks of crap from orgie town, its not even worthy of discussion.  you want her as your puppet, you enjoy her.

As far as I and I am sure many others are concerned, she is a non-issue and by trying to bring some form of "peace" you are wasting more time.

Best thing to do is to forget about her and the clowns there and continue with the rest of the steps.

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Beta-Tester Extraordinaire.

Testing on various platforms and operating systems...

http://www.2xlnt.com...
http://www.themeapp.com...

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Jack Deth said 26 seconds ago.:
I see the number 1 point as a complete waste of time.

When it comes to the sacks of crap from orgie town, its not even worthy of discussion.  you want her as your puppet, you enjoy her.

As far as I and I am sure many others are concerned, she is a non-issue and by trying to bring some form of "peace" you are wasting more time.

Best thing to do is to forget about her and the clowns there and continue with the rest of the steps.

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She is no puppet of mine!

It seems to be the consensus of opinion (especially after my discussion with On on IRC this afternoon) that continued conflict with her is, as you say "wasting more time".

As far as I am concerned, the matter is closed, Jos and her band of merry followers NO LONGER EXIST!

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"Open Source, Open Minds
If you make something idiot proof, somebody will come up with a better idiot.

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More ideas to follow!

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I shall continue...

6) Explore the development of a PHP version.

7) Cut the restrictions. That is, WebAPP does not have to come packaged with Forums, Articles or even a membership system. Offer various "packs" to be installed with the core package.

8. Yet more as I think of them!

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"Open Source, Open Minds
If you make something idiot proof, somebody will come up with a better idiot.

I am with you on that brother!!!

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Floyd said Today, 2 hours and 54 minutes ago.:
As far as I am concerned, the matter is closed, Jos and her band of merry followers NO LONGER EXIST!

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I actually already took up that stance a while ago... :)

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Beta-Tester Extraordinaire.

Testing on various platforms and operating systems...

http://www.2xlnt.com...
http://www.themeapp.com...

Wooow!

-Ted, we need you. You are one of the main corner stones of the new paradigm, you need a break take it, but please don't disappear!

-Steven, the challenges and changes all are all here! So are the bugs, hope we could get a beta out a.s.a.p

-Gspot, you have a point about long an short terms plan, there is also a need for a meeting. We will have such a meeting next month hopefully in London and few others elsewhere. Will try to make the meeting in London virtual too...
Otherwise, we use skype and irc very often.

-Chris, subscription to any section is important, we need to figure out how to do it. I like the way CNN implement it with "news alert".

-Andy, true there is a bit messy organization this is one important reason why its important to have the webapp meeting in London. Concerning Jois, we have no war, no peace and no nothing with her and her associates. So far so well, we actually got over 800 new users since the last reform (when Carter, Kat and Marius agreed to expel her). Version control, we have tried implementing it here.. but then I clicked some folder on my file browser (winXP ) and the entire site disappeared, so I dare not adding it again here. I have some idea for PHP, but not for the open forums. PHP is dynamical and important.

-Aron, you stated else where worries about v.2.0 I fully agree that we need to sort out the standards used and get out without any delay a beta version. As soon as the themes are done  and after the meeting in London, only then... we could have something ready. It is very important to make 100% that the themes/ would not need to go ever again through rewrite.

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[user:On]
on@web-app.net

WebAPP CMS - Ethos and Logos but no thanks to Pathos!
GC/CS/E/H/IT/L/M/MU/PA/P/S/SS/TW/O d(+++)>+ s: a+>++>+++$ C++++$ UBAHS*++++$ P+++++(--)$ L !E? W+>++ N+++@ K+++>++++++@ w$ !O M->+ V--() PS+(-) PE(++) Y+ PGP->+ t+() 5 X? R>* tv@ b++>+++ DI+++ D? G(-) e++>+++@ h----() r+++ y++++ (Words of wisdom from Larry Wall, 1993)

I like the modular approach for a set of scripts becoming quite complex. I'd like to see it one big package that can both be installed as one and via a browser uninstall or disable modules; or unziped locally, upload only the modules wanted. With the possibility of adding or removing modules with the addition or deletion of one folder.

Easier said then done. But it'd be far easier if modular aims were invoked.Several subs type files in core with each sub bult with some flexibility required for each modules own use. While at the same time allowing modules to supply own sub if core not flexible enough yet or ever.

I was going through the basic init stuff and it seems very complicated and disorganized, not enough comments anywhere in code. Credit stuff supplies very little to an open source work. Complexity without comments in open source work to me is like welding the hood shut anyway, but making the hood from a see through material.

Would still like to see something like TinyMCE or something supplied as an option for textareas.

Also members categories for almost every module, such as Articles, Forums, Galleries. Now there is one for galleries, ther I'd like to see general chategories offered. And in each general category the ability to provide pointers,or shortcuts to members stuff. Such as adding a general category of antique cars and allowing admin to simply provide the link to any specific members pics of antique cars.

Basically I'd like to see a heck of a lot more complexity, but somehow still be simple,organized, and easy to work with for each site owner to modify for their own needs.

Basically I somehow really like the present code and direction alot, but at same time realy hate it a lot too.

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BEER...its more than just a breakfast drink!!!

Sorry I am late to this party, but wanted to add my comments too.

1) Ease of use for the end user and to some extent the admin. Cleaning up a few things - putting things in a
logical place, consistent interface standards would help lessen the learning curve. I can come up with a few
examples as I get time, but wanted to get that out there as I didn't see it mentioned in this thread yet.

2) Documentation. Some type of user manual for site admins to get a jump on things. Some simple notes in
each admin panel would help point out the dangers or explain the features. Doesn't have to be a manual -
even a few simple sentences can make a big difference. Maybe make this as a show/hide option?

3) Less hostile. If I see the word 'piratical' one more time, I'm going to throw up.

4) Form is sometimes more important than function - we are not all designers. Having a nice set of themes
that are professionally or otherwise well designed (or converted from another theme set) can do wonders.
Showcase the versatility of the site and its many forms and looks to draw more people. I feel guilty setting up
sites that all look the same.

5) Take a look at tikiwiki for a great idea on a forum-to-email and email-to-forum feature where users can
post to a forum from an email - and forum posts go to an email address. I run some discussion maillists and
this would be a great feature to add for archiving the mail list and giving people an option to take part in the
site through email (like on their iPhone) or through the web.

6) Re-do the gallery. Make the picture upload limits adjustable by admin. Maybe an email to gallery option
that will post a pic sent to a specific address like some other galleries can do. I am thinking of being able to
send a pic from my cell phone to an email address and have it go straight to the gallery in near real time.

7) Add a simple database feature. Let admin set up fields (text, url, picture, date, pulldown menu,
checkboxes, simple math functions, email, etc), arrange their order and name/description, and then some
type of basic security (admin can change all records, user can change/add own records only, guests can only
browse, etc), make it searchable, and write some simple documentation to teach people how to make a simple
address book, classifieds system, links directory, contractor ratings, reviews system (averages scores for same
reviewed item), etc.

8) native RSS display suport.

9) A Slashdot style karma system.

10) a global forum and/or news system where web-app admins can 'subscribe' to another web-app forum or
news category and whatever is posted to one, gets posted to all subscribing sites. For example - me and 5
friends have web-app sites. We have our own normal forum sections related to each specific topic we run the
sites for. But we agreed to a new 'classifieds' section that we all share. Someone posts a TV for sale on my site
and it also shows up on the other 5 sites. Someone on the other site sees it and posts a question - that too
goes to each of the 5 other sites (synched). News categories would work the same way - articles posted to
one site will go to all subscribed sites as well.

11) Shall we play a game? How about some simple games where site members compete with each other?

12) more robust banner ad management. Support for flash ads. Banners run until expired by number of days,
number of clicks, or number of views. Banner zones and various sizes (square button ads, skyscrapers,
standard banners, mini banners, forum zone, articles zone, block zones, top zone, bottom zone, etc. Link to
ad stats for advertizer to see own stats.

13) Add reminder email to calendar entries. x days before event, subscribers get reminder email and IM.
Recurring events (monthly, yearly, every x days/weeks/months, 2nd Tuesday)

14) Link categories and subcategories. Each state has a category - each state category has a county
subcategory. Each county subcategory has a city sub sub category. You can find any city in the nation in 3
clicks.

15) merge downloads and picture gallery. Add media support for MP3/mpg/avi/pdf/etc. User can specify what
types are allowed (checkboxes of what can be added?).

16) Better documentation of ShowHTML - a very powerful feature, hidden unless you know where to look. Why
hide it - flaunt it.

17) Google maps support with some way to add points on the map to mark locations with notes and/or pics
(may be out of scope for webapp, but I can dream, can't I?).

'nuff for now.

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Don't trust any programming you can't see.

18) Update the Rank pulldown option to a checkbox option in the user profile so users can be members of
multiple "groups" at the same time. For example someone can be on the design committee as well as the board
of directors, but not a member of the holiday committe, restoration committie, special events committe, and
fundraising committie. If I have a private forum for each group that only those members have access to, then it is
next to impossible to get just the right combo of memberships so that each user in various multiple committees
can be members in their respective private forums. If there is an ability to belong to multiple Rank groups
(maybe renamed to simply "groups") then this feature would be much more flexible and meaningful.

19) Status - what is up with the Status category - test test test test? Does this serve any function? If not, can it be
removed? If so, can it be properly explained?

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Don't trust any programming you can't see.

20) If this is such a radical change - why not a name change to match?

(ducking behind rock)

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Don't trust any programming you can't see.

21) Shadow posting - This is a cool form of spam control and troll throttling. The user who is having a problem
with off topic or spam posts can still post - but only they see the post - their posts are hidden from others.
Eventually they get tired of being ignored and go away.

22) Documentation Wiki - Put a wiki here so we can all handle the documentation as it comes up. Users and
developers can contribute - you can moderate if you like. Many hands make light work.

23) A ticketing system/version control - something to track changes/bugs/etc for developers to have access to,
and users to have feedback on the progress of their 'bug' to know if someone is working on it and if it may be a
quick fix or a long wait. Keep the customer happy.

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Don't trust any programming you can't see.